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I've decided to continue this discussion where it belongs.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | Yes, I am Catholic. And I do not pray in public and I have yet to be put to death, so I can hardly say that I don't follow those rules. But even amongst Catholics, there are varying degrees of faithfulness. I did not find the suffering funny. I found the fact that the rest of the world is just supposed to drop their beliefs for thousands of years and start liking people that make them uncomfortable, go against their every belief, and goes against humanity. |
For thousands of years? No. For less than two thousand? Yes, but it's still morally wrong.
| LGBT History wrote: | Homosexuality was a perfectly acceptable sexual orientation in ancient Egypt and circa 2400 BC, the Overseers of the Manicurists in the Palace of King Niuserre during the Fifth Dynasty of Egyptian pharaohs were a gay couple, Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, and were also royal confidants to Niuserre, even receiving burial in a necropolis along with other royal aides.
In ancient Crete, circa 1600 BC - 600 BC, homosexual relationships were not only considered perfectly natural and healthy but they were encouraged in the Cretan aristocracy and, in fact, it was considered deeply shameful for a young aristocrat to not have a male lover.
In ancient Greece, while same-sex marriage was not legally recognised, homosexual relationships were common and socially acceptable, and such relationships were modelled identically to Greek marriages but for the difference in gender of one of the partners.
During the same time, Sappho of Lesbos wrote her many love poems to other women (and also invented the original Mixolydian mode, though because her writings were destroyed by Christians, the name was taken and applied to something completely different but not the actual music theory itself). Sappho of Lesbos would later provide the eventual inspiration for the modern-day terms sapphic and lesbian.
Approximately 200 years later, Plato's Symposium argues that love between two males is the highest form of love and that love between men and women is lustful, only useful for reproduction and prevents men reaching their full potential as people.
Fifty years after Symposium's publication, the Sacred Band of Thebes, an up-until-then-undefeated battalion of 150 gay couple is defeated by Philip II of Macedon, who bemoans their loss and praises their honour.
A mere 12 years later, Philip's bisexual son Alexander the Great conquers most of the known world and converts it to the gay-friendly Hellenistic culture, launching the Hellenistic Age.
With the beginning of the reign of Emperor Augustus, the Roman Empire is ushered in and the first gay marriage is performed. The Roman Empire is a time in which art and literature depict homosexual love in a positive light. Romans, like the Greeks, celebrated love and sex amongst men. Two Roman Emperors publicly married men (one of whom was Nero), some had gay lovers themselves (one of the most beloved Roman Emperors, Trajan, was famously homosexual and Elagabalus, another Emperor, married an athlete named Zoticus in a public ceremony), and homosexual prostitution was taxed.
Starting with the 300-400 AD period, in which Christianity spreads throughout the Western world, the first anti-homosexual laws were brought in. During this time, one of the last pieces of literature celebrating homosexual passion, Nonnus's Dionysiaca, was published.
During the 5th century AD, despite the numerous Christianity-inspired anti-gay laws, the Catholic Church continued to tax homosexual prostitutes.
400 years later, during the 9th century, also in spite of the many laws condemning his feelings as sin, Alcuin of York, an abbot, writes numerous love poems to other monks.
During the 1300s, Edward II of England had a gay lover, Piers Gaveston, Earl of Cornwall. Edward is killed in 1327. sodomised by a red-hot poker.
Over 200 years later, Mary Tudor repeals all laws against sodomy made by her father, only for them to be reinstated after her death by her sister.
In 1791 during the French Revolution, France decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Four years, later Luxembourg and Tuscany follow suit.
In 1811, the Netherlands decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Two years later, Bavaria does the same.
In 1828, the United States makes homosexuality a crime against nature.
Two years later, Brazil goes the opposite direction and decriminsalises it.
In 1852, Portugal decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Six years later, the Ottoman Empire decriminalises sodomy and East Timor completely decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
In 1865, San Marino decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
In 1870, Joseph and His Friend: A Story of Pennsylvania, the first American novel that portrays a homosexual relationship in a positive light, is published.
In 1871, the Second Reich criminalises homosexuality. During the decade immediately after, Guatemala, Mexico and Japan decriminalise homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
In 1886, Argentina decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Three years later, Italy follows suit.
In 1922, the USSR decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Two years later, Panama, Paraguay and Peru follow suit.
In 1930, Denmark decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Four years later, Uruguay follows suit.
During the 1940s, Iceland, Sweden, Switzerland and Suriname all decriminalise homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults. Homosexuals liberated from Nazi concentration camps by Allied forces are forced to serve out the rest of their sentence by their liberators.
In the 1950s, 190 US government employees are fired for being gay. During the same decade, Greece and Thailand join the majority of the Western World in decriminalising homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.
In the 1960s, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Chad, Bulgaria, East Germany, West Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada join the majority.
In the 1970s, Kosovo, Austria, Costa Rica, Finland, Norway, Malta, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Vojvodina, Cuba and Spain join the majority.
In the 1980s, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Colombia, Belize, Israel and Liechtenstein join the majority.
In the 1990s, the Bahamas, Hong Kong, Ukraine, the Isle of Man, Estonia, Latvia, the Republic of Ireland, Belarus, Gibraltar, Russia, Lithuania, Bermuda, Serbia, South Africa, Albania, Moldova, Romania, Australia, Ecuador, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chile, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Gabon join the majority.
In 2003, Armenia joins the majority.
The next year, so do Cape Verde and the Marshall Islands.
A year after, that Puerto Rico conforms to the majority.
In 2006, the United States of America officially becomes completely free of anti-gay laws.
In 2009, India conforms to the majority. |
So, as you can see, up until Christianity became prevalent, homosexuality was not only socially acceptable, it was encouraged. And as people realised it was immoral for religious beliefs to be prominent in democratically-elected governments, countries abandoned the illegality of homosexuality, most recently, the USA and India joined the moral majority.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | The entire basic instinct of life is to reproduce and carry on the species. Homosexuality betrays that basic instinct. It betrays the survival of the species. Homosexuality decreases the chance that humans have at least one member that is genetically immune to a certain outbreak, or another calamity. Oh, and did I mention the spread of STD's through the earlier years of homosexuality. Yes, thank you for getting HIV's in the blood banks. Thank you very much. |
If the basic instinct of life is to reproduce, you would think animals would be constantly reproducing instead of having a mating season. I rather thought that the basic instinct of life is to continue to live.
Also, might I point out that the Earth is already overpopulated, it's not like we need more people. It's not like the orphanages of the world have a backlog of vacancies.
And that's not to mention that people who choose not to have children, elderly couples and sterile or infertile people are also "betraying the species" according to you.
And then we come to HIV. HIV was not transmitted in the early days of homosexuality because homosexuality predates human infection of HIV by several thousand years. And that's not to mention HIV is spread through all forms of sexual relations as well as through blood contact, and originated in chimpanzees of western Africa. HIV was introduced into the blood banks by people with HIV, not necessarily by homosexuals or bisexuals.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | I would like to say that I am not homophobic. I deal with homosexuals almost every day whether it be here, at college, or just seeing them in passing. I am able to work with them, and even be friends. But that does not mean I agree with homosexuality or that it does not break my moral compass. |
You are homophobic, Chris, deal with it. You find homosexuality morally reprehensible. That's being homophobic. You may not be overtly homophobic and you may not allow it to interfere with your exchanges with homosexuals or bisexuals, but you are still homophobic.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | Homosexuality is common among humans, if you can say common. But name one other species on the earth that basically says "Screw surviving, I like animals of the same sex." There are other species that hold relationships, yet they have no homosexuality. And saying that homosexuality is an enlightened state, only coming about from an educated people is a one way ticket to me forever doubting your intelligence. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ls_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ds_displaying_homosexual_behavior
Note that these are only the birds and mammals which display homosexual behaviour and does not include reptiles, amphibians, etc.
Also, I suggest you read the Kinsey Reports, which are considered the definitive investigations into sexual behaviour and orientation to this day.
Sexual Behavior in the Human Male
Sexual Behavior in the Human Female
According to the Kinsey Reports, only 10% of the population are exclusively heterosexual and only 10% of the population are exclusively homosexual. The other 80% of the population are, to varying degrees on either side of the absolute middle ground, somewhat bisexual.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | There will always be a scapegoat, there will always be the persecution of what people find to be morally wrong. So yes, it is normal and expected. Just as the Irish immigrants were persecuted in Boston. Or the American prisoners were persecuted in Vietnam or The Pacific WWII Front.
I do not active discriminate against homosexuals. But I am not accepting of their behavior and desires. |
All discrimination is morally wrong. All peoples are born free and equal with certain inalienable rights. Sound familiar?
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | And in case anyone wanted to go with the "its genetics and in the brain" argument. Well then why don't we cure it like other ailments? Or have medication to help prevent it? |
Well, first of all, it's not an ailment, disease or disorder of any kind, so there should be no reason to prevent it in the first place.
And second of all, are you implying that all medical conditions can be cured? Because if so, I'm very sorry to burst your bubble.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | All in all, I do not hate homosexuals. Don't think that of me. But for religious and personal beliefs and morals, I have yet to accept them as an ethical occurrence. |
You don't hate them, you just find their existence unnatural and immoral. Which is so much better.
| Supreme Commander Alor wrote: | | There will be no easy solution to this. No long worded post will convince me or change my morals. So I suggest we drop this topic and move on to something happier. |
Well, unfortunately, I have a drive and compulsion to challenge moral indecency, but fortunately, I've brought it to the right place to do so.
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If you see dreadlocks and a staff coming towards you very rapidly, you're in trouble.
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I didn't know that, like from 1(above) I thought the liberals had trashed the idea.
